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Reply to Bill in MO House to allow ATVs on the Katy Trail

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Reply to Bill in MO House to allow ATVs on the Katy Trail

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RT on 2/10/2016 9:23:09 AM:

http://mobikefed.org/2016/02/advocacy-alert-bill-allow-atvs-katy-trail-moving-forward-missouri-house-contact-your-represe

Ray (webmaster) on 2/10/2016 10:28:00 AM:

The artcle begins:
A bill to allow ATVs and golf carts on the Katy Trail on certain days of the month has been proposed by Rep. Jay Houghton of Martinsburg. (Houghton is the same representative who has proposed requiring bicyclists to use a 15-foot tall flag.) The bill is HB 2047.

Do we want ATVs on Missouri's Katy Trail?
Do we want ATVs on Missouri's Katy Trail?
The bill had a hearing in committee Monday. The Missouri Bicycle & Pedestrian Federation was the only organization represented at the hearing in opposition to the bill. Several organizations and individuals testified in support of the bill at the hearing. The committee is likely to vote the bill out of committee next Monday, February 15th.

It is time for Katy Trail supporters to speak up. Allowing motor vehicles, like ATVs and golf carts, on the trail is a very bad idea.
---------------------------

Follow the above link for the rest of the article.

Lets not step on old people too much from saint louis on 2/10/2016 1:23:29 PM:

This bill is nothing to get excited about, and MO bike fed, if they are going to put out an article on it, they should COMPLETELY state what this bill is currently proposing. Below is the text summary of this Bill:

"This bill allows for the use of all-terrain vehicles and golf carts at a speed of 15 miles per hour or less by individuals who are disabled or 55 years of age or older on the Katy Trail on the first and third Wednesday of each month."

MidSouth from Rogersville on 2/10/2016 4:30:22 PM:

I guess I'm really old...well beyond 55 and see no need for me to ride a golf cart or four wheeler on the Katy trail. It's one thing to have flat on a bike 5 miles from the nearest crossroad, what happens when the golf carts batteries start going dead, four wheelers running out of gas and flat tires, then you got tow trucks on the trail. It is hard enough for the state to try and maintain the surface during the rain and flood seasons. Think what it will be like with bunch of kids out there tearing up the mud...

Anonymous on 2/10/2016 4:44:45 PM:

Or a bunch of horses out there tearin it up when its wet.

Cathy from Jefferson City on 2/11/2016 12:50:35 AM:

I could live with this if they took out the "or 55 years or older" part. By taking that out, this would allow disabled people to enjoy the trail on the first and third Wednes. of every month. People 55 or older who are not disabled can get their butts off their couches and bike or walk the trail.

I have lived in Jeff City for 28 years and worked for the state of Missouri for 27 years. I know from personal experience that somebody can call their legislator with a complaint and next thing you now there is some whacky bill being considered, and eventually passed. Where did this bill originate? If it is a genuine effort to allow disabled people to enjoy the Katy Trail, then I am fine with it. But allowing anyone 55 or older to ride an atv on the trail is a horse of a different color, and I am not fine with that.

Will from Columbia, MO on 2/11/2016 7:01:38 AM:

I'm ok with allowing the disabled people a chance to see and experience this states beautiful "park", but to allow 55 yo who are abled to ride a bike, no. It's going to cost the state a lot more to maintain the Katy trail (crushed limestone), if we have ATVs and Golf Carts on the trail 24 days a year (2x a mo). And why should they be on the trail when it's wet and or snowing, that's when they can and will do the most damage. So, I can see 3-4 months a year better than 12. And raise the age up to 60-65.
The next thing you know, there will be gas stations at trail locations. So much for taking a ride on a Nature Trail and breathing fresh air! Not to mention the noise these ATVs, etc make. I'm sure a lot of the people who's homes and businesses that are next to the trail will not like to be awaken at 0600 on a Sunday morning by the loud noise of these vehicles. Another thing, the times allowed on the trails on those days should be limited as well, mainly because of the noise they make.
Ok, I'm done, I could go on and on with this no being a good bill as it's currently being proposed. That's my two cents!

dennis on 2/11/2016 1:38:48 PM:

First and third Wednesdays and 55+ years sounds like a "toe in the water" thing to me. And 15 mph...who believes that would be observed?

MidSouth from Rogersville on 2/11/2016 5:31:15 PM:

As soon as the local kids hear anything about 4 wheelers being allowed on the trail they will be tearing it up...

Mimi and Papa from Springfield,Mo. on 2/11/2016 6:04:11 PM:

I agree with Mid South!!

jim from St Thomas on 2/12/2016 9:14:32 AM:

It occurs to me that the tone of most of these replies is similar to what I hear from the trail opponents at the town meetings I have attended. Predictions of dire consequences with no basis of fact. The truth is there is really nothing to stop the "local kids" from tearing up the trail now and I haven't found it to be much of a problem.

Anonymous on 2/12/2016 9:58:52 AM:

True Jim. Much like the heated threads here about the horses that were going to ruin it all for everyone.

Jon M from N TX on 2/12/2016 12:00:33 PM:

Are there not other places in MO where ATVs are allowed?

I think you have to consider what makes the Katy Trail special. Not having to deal with motorized traffic has to be near the top. Allowing noisy, heavy, fast ATVs would be a big mistake, even if just two days a month. And is it not just aesthetics. My experience is the ATVs are destructive unless the trails are designed and maintained for their use.

Note: I feel the same way about opening hiking-only trails to mountain bikes. It is OK to have usage restrictions on public lands to protect their essential nature.

Allowing electric wheelchairs and gold carts on the Katy Trail with a permit for disabled, handicapped or elderly (55 is not elderly) users might be reasonable, even more often than twice a month.

Katy Bose on 2/15/2016 5:31:29 PM:

We only want the trail two days per month.
on those days you stay away.
Fair enough.
If not fair enough Too bad.

Atvfan from St charles on 2/15/2016 7:02:05 PM:

I love riding my atv. It's a great way to enjoy time with the family. But, we ride in appropriate places, not in close proximity to walkers. That's just irresponsible - dangerous. Those engines are noisy and stinky. They ruin the whole reason people go to the trail: peace, quiet and clean air. Take your noisy, stinky machine where it is welcomed.

Jack Thomson from Collinsville, IL on 2/15/2016 7:18:59 PM:

There is a piece of private property (10 acres?) near us and also adjacent to the bike trail here in Collinsville. Over the last few years, I have watched that property go from a beautiful park-like setting to an ATV and dirt bike track. The tread on the vehicles tears up the dirt and when it rains, boy does the place become messy! It's private property and they can do anything they want, but it shows the destructive force of engines and tread. I'd hate to see that on the Katy or any trail.

Anonymous on 2/16/2016 10:20:46 AM:

"We only want the trail two days per month. on those days you stay away."

By this, you tacitly acknowledge that concurrent use of the trail by ATVs and non-motorized users is untenable. These days effectively become ATV-only days.

The "it-is-two-days" argument presumes that hikers and cyclists only want to use the trail for a day at a time. However, if they are hiking or riding the entire length say from one weekend to the next, then there would be two weeks every month where they would have to deal with motorized traffic on the trail.

And the effects of ATV use of the trail will not be limited to the days they are allowed on the trail. The trail surface will be impacted by higher speed heavier vehicles with aggressive treaded tires. At a minimum, this means more trail maintenance costs and probably capital expenditures to improve the roadbed surface for motorized vehicle use in some (or many) areas.

Beyond the trail user/town hall opinion gathering, I hope that legislative hearings will be broad and thorough, considering all costs and impacts, and the nature of the trail with its current access rules.

Chicken Boy from St. Louis on 2/25/2016 1:58:16 PM:

Has anyone mentioned the amount of dust four wheeled vehicles kick up? The Katy can be quite dusty at times, and there are thousands of out-of-state people annually who ride the length of the trail which may include Wednesdays. Rails to Trails pedestrian paths are all over this beautiful world of ours, and Missouri would be the first to allow this type of thing to occur. I have a couple handicap friends, and they have electric wheel chairs; a four wheeled vehicle which is fine with me for the trail. I am so proud of us for having the longest R to T in our country, please, please, please don't let this pass. People will go back and tell other potential tourists about had to stop for moments because four wheelers made it impossible to breath for a while.

Anonymous on 3/1/2016 11:50:25 AM:

I wanna ride my bike around the high school track. It's not fair that I can't.

Anonymous on 3/8/2016 2:52:55 PM:

If there are ATVs on this trail I will certainly cancle my plans to ride there this summer... when will it be known whether or not ATVs will be allowed?

BikerBoy from Edwardsville, il on 3/8/2016 5:52:11 PM:

Action on the bill was postponed on 2/15 and as of today (3/8), no hearing is scheduled. I am sure our good friends at MoBikeFed will stay on top and alert us if it comes up again.

Proposals like this are a way to draw attention to candidates. But it keeps us (temporarily) from moving forward. Our energy needs to be put into enhancing the Katy and developing the Rock Island trail, not fighting an attention-seeking politician.

Anonymous on 3/8/2016 11:07:22 PM:

My effort will be put into keeping ATV's off the Katy. That effort is to enhance the Katy trail and has nothing to do with giving attention to a politician.

Gary from Near Tebbetts on 3/9/2016 11:06:10 AM:

Representative Jay Houghton's real goal is to promote his constituents goal of keeping bicycles off the country blacktop roads. He is using the analogy of the safety issues of having ATVs on the Katy to compare that to the safety issues of having bicycles on the rolling hill blacktop roads. Plain and simple.

Jon M from N TX on 3/9/2016 11:58:38 AM:

So-called bike safety bills are common. When state-wide bike restrictions are rejected, the proponents often turn to allowing local bike restrictions. That's what happened with Texas Senate Bill 238 fifteen years ago which was defeated with help from state bicycle advocacy groups. Since then few cities have adopted bike bans on state highways within their city limit even without the additional authority the bill would have granted. So both state-wide and local bike advocacy is needed.

Hopefully due to the state park designation, the Katy Trail will not become subject to a mess of local regulations. And hopefully, that same designation will help protect the non-motorized access restrictions.

see:

touroftexas.com/events/lege_bills.html

stateimpact.npr.org/texas/2012/12/24/texas-roads-cause-rage-when-bicyclists-are-banned/

Dutch on 3/18/2016 5:25:10 PM:

A teenager passed me yesterday in a quad just west of Augusta yesterday. I swear I saw the same quad pull into a B&B in town there on my way up for supper.

Eric Martin from Ohiopyle PA on 4/8/2016 8:48:51 AM:

Hey folks,

There has been some movement that everyone may want to pay attention to. We submitted our comments as bike tour operator in opposition of this. Good luck to the citizens of MO on defeating this nonsense.

http://mobikefed.org/2016/02/advocacy-alert-bill-allow-atvs-katy-trail-moving-forward-missouri-house-contact-your-represe

George H on 4/10/2016 6:44:54 AM:

Can we get that hacker group to expose Rep. Jay Houghtons personal information on the Internet so he may reconsider?

Jon M from N TX on 4/10/2016 10:26:44 AM:

The Missouri bike advocacy suggests that out-of-state people interested in this issue should email the Speaker of the House (email given at the website). My email told him we were reconsidering our trip in September in light of this bill.

The author of the bill seems to have a history of anti-cycling legislation. But the fact that his bill made it out of committee means that more than just the author supports it. There must be some constituency who supports it.

Who is supporting the bill?

Anonymous on 4/10/2016 1:36:38 PM:

I believe some supporters are the Farm Bureau and members.

John S from Jefferson City on 4/10/2016 8:36:11 PM:

If the Katy Trail is to be opened to handicapped or elderly (55 I NOT elderly), then the correct approach is to do what is done in other parks, create a paved section designed for such vehicles. I doubt there are more than a few dozen handicapped folks using ATV's to get around. This bill would also not make it any easier for wheel chairs either. I don't care how infrequent the use would be that the bill proposes. It's just the wrong way to achieve the goal. Do it right and more handicapped folks would have access and little or no impact would be created for the thousands of other users.

dc from jc on 4/11/2016 7:39:33 AM:

for those that say it is "toes in the water" they already amended it to every Wednesday, I emailed the representative with my opposition but haven't gotten a reply in over a week.....

Anonymous on 4/12/2016 4:28:55 AM:

Why doesn't State Reps Tom Hurst, David Wood and Senator Mike Kehoe who are doing the Rock Island Trail info meetings getting a "coalition" to block this bill? But I am assuming they are against the bill by being at the information meetings. May not be the case huh?

Brian L. from Wichita on 4/12/2016 6:05:31 AM:

I emailed all 162 House members the other day, and have gotten responses from two of them -- Reps. Kip Kendrick & Mary Nichols both said they oppose the bill & will vote No if it gets to the floor.

Jon M from N TX on 4/12/2016 6:08:12 AM:

What is it with Farm Bureaus? The Texas Farm Bureau has backed anti-cycling legislation in Texas, too!

For the MFB it seems there is a history of opposing rail-trails. Regarding the Rock Island Trail:

"Trail opponents, led by the powerful Missouri Farm Bureau, are very organized--just as they were when the Katy Trail was created back in the 1990s."

mobikefed.org/2015/01/rock-island-trail-meeting-westphalia-trail-opponents-come-out-woodwork

Anonymous on 4/12/2016 12:38:56 PM:

How do you like the republican controlled legislature so far? They say they don't want government involved in people's lives and then propose a thousand such stupid bills.

Tim Duncan from OFallon, MO on 4/12/2016 1:56:26 PM:

No way. This is a terrible idea. I use the trail a lot for biking. It is hard enough for cyclists to find a safe place to bike and now they want to ruin that also. I can see it now, 3 guys on 4 wheelers going 33mph
on the trail.... or riding up to a muddy spot where they dug their wheels into the mud and made ruts for us to bump over.

I see lots of parents out there in a line with their kids on bikes or on trailers. Many times they are stopped and fixing their helmets
and stuff. Can you see the 4 Wheeler blowing by them and hearing all the noise?

Hell no.

Ricky Republican on 4/12/2016 2:33:05 PM:

We're going to make the Katy great again.

It's going to be great. Really, really great.

The ruts in the trail will be really, really deep. Because. You know. I like ruts. And it will be really, really dusty too.

And we'll have Sarah come down and show you all how a real Maverick rides an ATV. It will be great.

Anonymous 2 on 4/12/2016 3:54:46 PM:

Hey Ricky I'm getting Lucy to slap you off your ATV again.

RR on 4/12/2016 7:24:22 PM:

Down low. Don't wanna mess with the club road kill.

Anonymous on 4/13/2016 3:59:30 AM:

I can "feel your bern" ricky. Can we get some of his funny money he's going to give out like Chavez or our Barry. Zowie!!

Manuel from Hazelwood on 9/17/2016 11:29:09 PM:

I think this bill is good. I am disabled and cannot walk. I was in a terrible accident. I love the outdoors. I would love to experience the Katy Trail. The bill doesn't say anyone can ride an ATV on the trail. Only people who can't ride a bike or hike. My solution to the people who do not like the bill, stay off the trail on those Wednesday's if it bothers you that much. It's not all about you.

Scott from Sw mo on 9/18/2016 8:58:20 AM:

Well as far as I can tell hb2047 never made it out of committee. They did amend where you had to be 60 and only utility vehicles no atvs.

As of right now I believe you can use electric bicycles if that is an option for you Manuel.

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