Reply to Sundermeier RV Park in St Charles

They don't allow tent camping. There is no where to tent camp near St Charles, you have to go into woods between trail and river

You can tent camp at Klondike park.

That is like 28 miles away. I'm just saying that this should be removed as an option because it is not. I was forced to sleep in the woods just east of St. Charles because I was lied to by the signs.

There are many people that come to enjoy the trail by RV and do day rides. I don't believe anyone forced you to camp anywhere. There are many other lodging options in St. Charles that do not entail trespassing.

Please define "trespass" as per Missouri State Law. I'm thinkin if its not marked with signs or purple paint it's not trespassing.

Basically in Missouri if it is not public space and you enter without the owners permission you are trespassing. If it is public space and you are asked to leave and do not, effectively your permission/right to be there is denied, and you are then trespassing.

If you are inclined to press your luck it is probably best to search the Missouri Statutes to know exactly what the law is. You'll be much more impressive standing before the judge quoting the law than saying that you thought is was okay for you to go where ever you wanted.

The regulars, both Chris and Lone Wolf, are absolutely correct. This is a constant subject brought up often. The signs and laws are pretty clear about stealth tent camping in and out of this state park. I would not chance a friendly business or landowner or ignorance of the law when law enforcement or a person with a shotgun pulls up to your campsite.

Pseudio,

I totally agree with you: Stealth camping on the Katy is not an option. But the thing is, there is no reason to stealth camp, even if you are a camper.

A couple of years ago my son and I got caught between McKittrick and Treloar (maybe near Case?) in a thunderstorm. We didn't have it in us to make it to Marthasville. Anyway, we came upon a house, knocked on the door, and asked for permission to sleep in the barn. It was granted.

I also slept under someone's tree in Pilot Grove last year because I just felt like quitting for the day--after I asked and received permission to do so.

This is one area where you get permission, not forgiveness. But it's easy to get....Just ask. Offering or giving the landowner $10 for the camping spot doesn't hurt either.

Momma said "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar".........what momma said.

But (true) stealth camping never happened. ;)

ArkyKenny, you must know many landowners along the trail or are pretty lucky. My suggestion is get into better riding shape or reduce your riding distance with a planned stop. MO ain't Arky!!

I must a) look harmless, b) look pitiful, c) look desperate, d) be able to talk a good game. I suspect it is some combo of the above, because I don't know the landowners of the places I have stayed. Of course, circumstances, like the crazy thunderstorm, also helped me make my case.

My technique is usually something like this: "Do you know of anywhere I can put up a tent? ...........Would you be willing to let me pay you some money to sleep in your barn?"

I would never camp somewhere without permission. But ask and you shall receive. Bicycle tourists everywhere live in part by the goodwill of others. I would never purposely put myself in a position to DEPEND on others, but if in a bind I would never hesitate to ask. And the door will be opened. It is the "not asking" that gets one in trouble.

i think the original poster is correct.
There are signs at St. Charles that indicate tent camping yet there are none in St. Charles.
I too was "forced" to camp in the mountain bike trails. Hope that was okay. Fix the signs!!! or can you camp at The Landing right in the middle of town?

I didn't realize everyone that visits St. Charles is forced to camp and trespass. Last time I was there we stayed in a motel, guess we didn't get the memo, go figure?

I think the original poster may have misinterpreted the signage. I don't know what signs they are talking about that lied to them, but following the logic used on this site and in many, many other places, the "tent" symbol indicates that camping is available. That symbol seems to be international or standard signage. It does not indicate the type of device that you can sleep it. It simply indicates that a camping facility is available.

At this point, it becomes a matter of personal responsibility for the individual to determine if they can stake their tent, or if their 40 foot camper will fit in any of the spots there. Others do the same by calling the hotel to make sure they have a room, instead of just knowing that lodging is available.

But to neglect to do the required research and then claim to be a victim in that a sign lied and that they were then "forced" to do something illegal displays a lack of personal responsibilty.

The signs may need "fixed" but sometimes it helps to help yourself.

Or maybe there are huge signs in St. Charles that read "Tent Camping Here" and when you get there the armed guards yell at you and tell you that you can't pitch a tent here as they force you into the woods to bed down for the night.

Well said Trek! My vote is for personal responsibility. Stealth camping is illegal and the result of ones own poor choices, not outside forces acting upon one.

I went to the website of this RV Park and it did not even mention tent camping. The other postings here are correct, research and planning help to make an enjoyable ride. Also having a plan b helps when problems arise. Like others said, get a motel. And finally if all else fails go begging and ask permission to tent camp from landowners, plan c. It's all good. But don't whine about it Chris.

Not being judgmental, just an observation. But most of the comments on this thread condemning stealth camping are by the same people that recently congratulated a recent thru racer on his illegal (partial closed hours) attempt. whats with that.

I agree with the original post. I just rode the Katy Trail, and planned my stops based on where I would be able to camp by tent, and this site shows Sundermeier as allowing camping and uses a "tent" symbol. At the very minimum, the Sundermeier page should be updated to show that no tent camping is allowed but even better from my perspective would be to remove the "tent" symbol altogether and use a "trailer" symbol for Sundermeier's version of camping.

Sorry I didn't notice this forum prior to my trip, but a forum shouldn't be the way to clarify whether a site described as allowing camping actually does. That should be up there at the top in the description of the site.

As for the rest of the Katy Trail, it was a delight and all the other campgrounds matched up with expectations. Thanks for maintaining this service for riders.

I also agree. What the hell Ray
...why should I take a couple minutes to call someplace to verify I can camp there when it would be a simple matter for you to drive the trail end to end daily verifying the information that the vendors have given you.

Yes indeed that business is not relevant to Katy Trail users, and I have removed it from the website. Unfortunately, there is no camping east of Augusta.